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Back to polo players
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"How close do you feel to a 10 goal handicap, and how much
Do you want it back?"
"I don't think l' m far fram it. Obviously l' d like to get it back. But I ‘d like much more to win the Open with Agustín and Paco."
"ln Palermo 2004 you played as No 3 because Pite was not there when La Mariana showered Miramar with goals. And half seriously, half joking you said 'this question of playing as o 3 is a piece of cake, not having to go running into people'. 'Would you like to playas the regular No 3?"
"I’ve played a few practice matches this year as No 3, but no-one wants to wear the N o 2, so 1'11 go on wearing it."
"Does the 'dirty work' of marking and the going around in circles bother you, or do you take it naturally?"
It's a job someone must do. I'd prefer not to have to do it. But I always say that if I am N o 2, 1'11 put everything I've got into . l'm absolutely convinced that if the 2 doesn't push; doesn't ) kilometre after kilometre coming and going and doesn't kill myself for his No 1 and his No 3, he's no use. That doesn't lean he has to do crazy things and go crashing into everyone in his way. But i f the 2 doesn' t create spaces for the 3 and the 1, he' s no use."
“The same that you answered the critics about a 'dangerous team', do you apply to yourself as a 'dangerous player'?"
"Yes, yes. Polo is in itself extremely dangerous. If to that danger we add bad intentions, then it becomes truly dangerous. 1 consider yself a strong player. When 1 go for it, I go for it, but I'm not .ing to push anyone off their horse or kill anybody."
“What farewell message do you have for Milo (Fernández Araujo, with whom you've played and who you wanted at one time to introduce into a future team?"
“We had thought of Milo before speaking to Paco. It' s a pity that such a great player and such a great guy should be leaving. But 1 don't believe he's leaving. He'l1 take a gap year or two. Knowing how Milo loves polo and having the organization that he has, in a couple ofyears he'l1 be back in some team. I hope so, don't you? Because it's nice to watch him play. He's a guy who puts guts into s game, he's pushing; he has a lot of horses. He likes polo too much to just give it up suddenly."
To tell the truth, I like motor-bykes, but I don’t own one and I’m not mad about engines. I didn’t feel any affinity. I asked for a couple more options, and that’s when I thought of a gladiator.”
“You then felt more yourself”
“I don’t know, I think I’m rather far from being one, but they have my respect. In order to be a gladiator, one must have had a lot of courage and have been very well trained. I like those kinds of people.”
“Are you the sort who reads articles or books about gladiators, or watches movies about them?”
“I love the movies about gladiators. I’m not a historian, of course, but again, they are people who have my greatest respect.”
Very well, then. The Gladiator completed the sketch with the only thing he was missing: the suit worn at the time of the Roman Empire; gladiators known as secutors, armed with a helmet; shield and sword. But what was there underneath?
Firstly, a simple guy. He listens carefully to each question; his glance penetrating. Does he perhaps feel perturbed about something, such as the talk about having a magnifying glass posed over his team, El Paraíso, which many refer to as “dangerous”? But he is firm in his convictions. In fact, he had already stated them last year, in the 33rd issue of POLO MUNDIAL, when during an interview to his team he explained: “Polo is in itself very dangerous. If to that we add foul intent, it becomes extremely dangerous. I consider myself a tough player. When I push ahead, I push ahead, but I’m not going to knock anyone down or kill anyone”. He tells us that many aspects of his personality have changed; he has another perspective on life; things that before he found irritating, no longer bother him. And there is also room for an emotional Sebastián when he speaks of his family, pointing out that there are no gladiators without feelings.
Married to Silvina Neira and father to Segundo (7), Olivia (5) and Santos
(2), he is surprised when we ask him about his nick-name “Loco”.
“Who called you ‘Loco’ for the first time, and under what circumstances?”
“It was at school, at the Champagnat, and also my friends on the farm.”
“But what happened? What did you do?”
“I must have got into trouble, done something wild… but mind you, there are not many who call me ‘loco’, though…”
“Did you always attend the Champagnat?
“No, I ended up at the Mitre school. I left Champagnat in 7th grade because I wanted to go to an agricultural college in Cañuelas. I was there for a couple of months. After that my parents had to travel to Japan and I left the agricultural college.”
“Was that your idea?”
“Yes, I was a border, and went from Monday to Saturday, and the truth is that I wasn’t very comfortable there. I decided to lose the year. It was June, before the winter holidays. I wound up working at my old man’s office, and studying more than if I’d gone to any other school. I took private lessons on every subject and was office boy at Merlos & Company. So by the end I was begging to go back to school.” (laughter)
“What did your parents do when they heard of your decision? What did they say?”
“They wanted to kill me!!! They were rather far away, fortunately. After that I went to the Mitre school.”
“What do you remember about those days? Are your friends the same as then, or have you related more to friends from your work?”
“The kind of life I lead tends to separate me from school friends a bit, but I haven’t lost them. I have many friends outside the polo world. And in it, not that many, but I do have some.”
“What other things are attractive to you outside your profession? I imagine you’re not always talking shop?”
. “I like to know everything related to the farm. When I get together with people who know about it, I bombard them with questions; ask their advice. I am starting up with a farm of my own, with cattle, and I’m interested in learning.”
“And what about other sports?”
“I practice other sports, but I’m not much good; neither am I all that good at polo (laughter). I like football, although I have a knee that gives me a lot of trouble. I love ping-pong and pool. I enjoy tennis, but I’m bad and I’ve got a bad elbow. I’m not enthusiastic about golf; I may play four or five holes, but after that I get bored; I start thinking about other things that I should be doing and can’t concentrate.”
“What is the private Sebastián like, the one only a few know?”
“A bit of a teaser; very much a family man. I’m not sociable; I don’t get together every day at a different neighbor’s house. I like more peace and quiet. If I didn’t have to play in Buenos Aires in the season, I’d live on the farm in Trenque Lauquen. I like sushi and going out to dinner every now and then with some other couple. In general I’m a quiet guy; I don’t go out in the evening; I like going to the movies or watching films at home with the children.”
“When you were a student, were you any good, or did you find it tough?”
“I always found it a dead bore. During primary school I was a good student. In secondary school, when I started to travel and the outline of my future lifestyle was becoming apparent, in which it was unlikely that I’d go on to university, it was harder. I completed the period as a regular student, but I had a couple of subjects to sit for later after I’d finished.”
“You became really keen on polo at about 13 or 14…”
“No, according to my old man, ever since I was very small I was already milling around the corrals. I was always passionate about knowing what horse my father would play.”
“With Pite being four years your senior, did you admire him, your old man or other players?”
“Father was always my benchmark. Pite helped me a lot and still does. I was lucky to be able to play almost the whole of my career with him; to share patrons. We have hardly ever played against each other. Well, I see it as lucky; he is probably fed up about it… We’ve always pulled the same way. We’ve won a lot abroad; we’ve also won here. I try to imitate many things about the good players. I love Bautista and Horacio Heguy’s horsemanship and also Tincho’s; I love the way Miguel Novillo moves on the field. Of course I also love Cambiaso’s handling of the ball, but there’s no way I can imitate that.
“Did you pay attention to the ponies, or did you only think about going out to stick-and-ball or to play? And another thing: when did you become aware of the importance of the horse in polo?”
“In that sense, my father was very strict with us from very small. At home, on the farm, we were given six ponies, a saddle, mouthpiece, a couple of reins, a pair of leg bandages and a pen, and if our pony wasn’t brushed and the pen clean, we weren’t allowed to play in the afternoon. And once we’d played, at the end of the chukka we had to go to the pony lines at full speed, get off; unsaddle; rub down the horse; saddle up a new one to be ready for the next chukka. And if you didn’t get there in time, they started without you…”
“So that he gave you the means, but made sure you gave it its true value.”
“Yes, we always knew how important it was to have all the gear in good condition; that if we rode the horses in the morning, they’d perform well in the afternoon; that if we slept till 12, the horse would be outside eating and when we wanted to play it, it would be no good. My old man taught me that if you don’t get organized regarding everything you have to do before a match, later on you won’t perform as you would wish on the field.”
“Have you played a lot as Nº 2 having played with Pite for so many years? Is it the position you like best?”
“It used to be the position I liked best. Nowadays it’s the one I like least.”
“Used to be till when?”
“Let’s say till about 4 or 5 years ago. I can’t play as Nº 1 because I’m not a goaler, but I want to play in any other position. I think that this year we are going to change positions with Pite. I’ll go as Nº 3 and he as 2. That’s the idea. We played at Palm Beach until I took a fall. And afterwards in England we did well that way.”
“And how did you manage to convince him?”
“It took me five years (laughter). The other day he said to me: ‘Since I started playing as Nº 2 I’m always on the ground…’ Last year we started playing the Queen’s Cup that way, until he and Piqui Díaz Alberdi crashed into each other and he fractured four ribs; that was the end of that trial. At Palm Beach he also had a few bumps and now in England, he almost killed himself. We arrived at that decision together. If you take each of us at a time, you find he is the most skilful; he manages the ball better, whereas I hit harder, I’m stronger. I think the time for a change has come.”
“You were saying that about five years ago you stopped liking that position. Why?
“It’s a very thankless position. I firmly believe that he who plays as Nº 2 has to put on an overall and start working for the Nº 3 and the Nº 1; you have to run for every ball at a pace that is always one gear above or too fast for you to be able to manage the ball or cover some gap. The polo that is being played today has many changes of position. But I believe the Nº 2 has to be everywhere; strong and fast. And that means that you wear out the ponies; that your work is not apparent. There are better positions.”
“Let’s talk about your teams. Royal Pahang ’93: you made a noise at Palermo by beating La Martina. You played with Nachi Heguy, Castagnola and Tommy Fernández Llorente.”
“It was my first Open as regular member of the team. I saw the cutting from La Nación at Lolo’s home which I think you wrote. The heading read ‘The unexpected win’. Those results weren’t frequent. We arrived at the field expecting to be beaten hollow, and things started to work out well; we caught them unawares. We had a list of some horses which we would use again to see what happened.”
“And quite a lot happened…”
“Of course, my old man even left the stands in the third chukka to come and change the order of our ponies because he realized it was possible. So some mares got to play three chukkas. Later on we lost against Pilarchico. I think we took the magic pill!”
“La Mariana did well: it got to the Palermo final. And Azzaro’s performance turned out to be quite a surprise.”
“We worked hard to get that team going. Milo, Pite and I had to mount ourselves and also Azzaro. Mike was going to send horses, and later that was not possible. We started resorting to friends who lent us some. We put all of them into one pool and decided which was best for each, and that is how we faced the season. We lost the semi-final at Hurlingham and were in the Palermo finals. That was when Ellerstina and Chapa II did their best during the week to be able to play against us. I remember saying to Pite in the stands: ‘Just look at how they’re playing! They want to come up against us. I knew we were a weak team, but not that bad, surely!’ That did us a great deal of good, both to Chapaleufú and to us, because we played the semis four days later and won. Our game ended 20-19, with a record number of goals at Palermo which was only broken last year. After that, Chapaleufú taught us a lesson in the final.”
“It was Royal Pahang in 96-97; then came La Baronesa, with Tommy and with Matías Mac Donough.”
“It was a nice team, fun. In ’97 we won Tortugas and Hurlingham (Editor’s Note:the final by W.O over Ellerstina), and we lost the Open in a supplementary chukka in the semi-final against Ellerstina. My handicap was raised to 10 goals. I have good memories of that.”
“What was needed for that team to reach the Palermo final?”
“In those days Ellerstina–which also beat us in the ’98 semi-final–was an impressive team as regards horses and an organization that was outstanding. It was more organized than it is today. We were probably lacking in experience.”
“You had a couple of years with Criado and Matías Mac Donough playing for El Paraíso. Then came La Dolfina; that is, Ellerstina came first.”
“Adolfito and Lolo invited me to play for Ellerstina. At first it was to be with Aguerre, later it ended up being Gonzalito. Everything had been agreed, the deal closed. And then all that happened. I was asked who I would join, and, as I had been invited by Cambiaso and Castagnola, I joined them. We had to complete the team. Pite was being approached by Chapaleufú. We called him…”
“Just when you had managed to get rid of him…”
(laughter) “Yes, but he came back; we convinced him.”
“And what happened with the team?”
“It took us some time to get organized… and I don’t think we ever really managed to do so. Adolfito and Lolo had just left Ellerstina, where they had been given everything, and as for me, when I closed the deal with the Piereses, all I needed was 3 of my own ponies; the rest I sent to all sorts of places. Then came that downfall… and I had been left with almost nothing. I had to even get mares from my herd to play.”
“So three of the four players had no horses.”
“Exactly, we were against the wall. We did what we could. Tim Gannon gave Adolfito a hand; we recovered some horses. The first year we won at Hurlingham and were in the Palermo final; another year we won at Hurlingham again and lost at Palermo against Chapa Uno, and the third year we won both Hurlingham and Palermo.”
“I remember Lucas Monteverde saying, during an interview with POLO MUNDIAL: ‘That La Dolfina team didn’t win more because it was missing team spirit’. True or false? Was the feeling of comradeship missing?”
“No, we were not lacking in comradeship. But two of us stabled our ponies in Pilar and the other two in Cañuelas. And that, whether you like it or not, makes a difference. It is important for a team to see each other every day, see how each one is. That could have caused the impression that the relationship was not good. What’s more, one year I stabled my ponies in Cañuelas, at Lolo’s, in order to be closer. I know it was said that there were two gangs. Look here, if there are two gangs, you don’t win Hurlingham the amount of times that we did, and you don’t get into the Palermo finals. But it is a fact that today we are all better mounted than when we played together. It is the result of the passing of time. You don’t get well mounted from one day to another.”
“In view of the fact that that you were becoming better mounted, as you pointed out, didn’t you feel like giving it a go for another season?”
“No, because Agustín was there, and we had always planned to play with him. Tincho never put on pressure, he was respectful of our timing. They also had Santiago Chavanne coming up. We couldn’t put together a six-member team. We talked about it and each went his way.”
“Do you think that if the four of you played again with the horses you have today, that you would do better? That the relationship between you had nothing to do with it?”
“No doubt about it. I think we’d do much better.”
“Let’s go into some controversial issues. People still talk about the famous play in the 2001 final with Aguerre, close to the C stands; about the foul which gave rise to the penalty shot that enabled Chapa Uno to draw and go on into the supplementary chukka.”
“It wasn’t a foul by any manner of means. I got the ball before Aguerre touched it sideways. All the same, talk is in vain.”
“Sure, but it comes to my notice that the subject is brought up every now and then.”
“Well, the blow of the whistle changes history sometimes. As I saw the play, Aguerre was running with the ball and I come up to hook him; at one moment he tries to stop; from the far side I hit the ball towards the boards, with him trying to touch it and send it into the middle; I take it from him before he manages to do that. Some referee must have got blinded. I still believe there was no foul. And if I remember rightly, I spoke of it with Mariano, and he agreed with me that it was not a foul.”
“In those days, between 2000 and 2003 you played all the finals. Why are those games lost and why are they won?”
“Finals are not won or lost, it is tournaments that are won or lost. The tournament has to begin on the right foot. You have to be in a good zone; be lucky in not getting horses or players injured; your ponies have to have sufficient previous training. It is a string of things that lead to your being able to reach out for the title. It happened once with Chapa II, when nobody even considered them: they suddenly had faith in themselves and a winning spirit and they won. That happens sometimes, but not often. Winning is a number of things well done; of planning your play well and of a little dose of that champion’s luck, which if it isn’t there…
“Setting aside the ’95 final; the rest were very close, in a supplementary chukka.”
“We were always missing that little dose of luck and just another pony. We were struggling along with a very good team, but struggling none the less.”
“Does losing finals mentally affect one? What is the reaction when the next chance arises, do images weigh?
“No they don’t. I perceive no change; I don’t go on to the field thinking ¡oh, dear, I lost a final un such a tournament, such a year…’, thinking that it might happen again or weigh in the outcome. I go on to the field, and if I’m well organized I feel well, I feel I have chances of winning, that the chances are shared 50-50 with the opponent.”
“We are arriving at the present stage: La Mariana, then El Paraíso, between 2004 and 2006. Many injuries, suspensions, obstacles. This year it happens again.”
“The thing about the injuries is incredible. We were never able to complete a season together. The first time we were able to enter Palermo as a complete team was last year… and with Paco having broken his leg 20 days before. Awesome! In 2005, at Hurlingham, Pite ended up playing alone: I had a broken coccyx; Agustín had pulled a muscle and Paco had a broken leg. It’s very hard playing like that.”
“It seemed as though the trend had changed in 2006, after that great debut against Chapa II, with Tincho’s record included. One got the feeling that it could have been your Open that time. Afterwards you lost against La Dolfina; you were expelled. Bad memories.”
“Yes, bad memories. Talking about that would take a lot of time, and polo has much nicer things to talk about.”
“Is polo nice or do the players or even the characteristics inherent to the sport make it what it has become today?”
“Polo is very nice; it’s wonderful. I don’t know that today’s Opens are all that nice. Good polo was what was played before; the polo Chapa Uno, Coronel Suárez, Santa Ana, La Espadaña and even Chapa II of bygone days used to play. Nowadays I go and watch polo, and the truth is that I get bored. I play and must adapt, but it isn’t the polo that I would like to play or that I would like others to play.”
“Why is that?”
“There are many reasons. Polo has improved a lot as regards horses, training grounds, the quality of players and the fine tuning of the ponies. But there are other interests; sponsors demand that you win. A more pragmatic polo is being played: he who holds on to the ball wins; the one that has to run is no longer the ball but the horse.”
“The kind of polo played abroad has come to us.”
“That’s it.”
“What causes you greater pressure: playing the final of the British Gold Cup for a patron or the Palermo final?”
“I take it the same way: I always want to win. The Open is the Open, but the US Open is very important; the Gold Cup or Queen’s Cup in England the same. You play every tournament for something, and you owe it your hundred percent. I feel the same playing the Gold Cup for La Lechuza as the US Open that I won for Diables Bleus as the final of the Open. I play with the same vigor and strength.
“I once asked Pite why there was rivalry between you and Chapa II. Before the final against La Dolfina in 2000, many ironic and spiteful phrases directed at you were bandied about. Your brother said he didn’t know why that rivalry existed, that he didn’t understand it. What do you think about that?”
“You would have to ask Chapa II. There is rivalry, but on the field. After that–I won’t say I go out to dinner with Ruso or Nachi Heguy–but I don’t think they’re bad guys or anything. I think they are wonderful polo players; the go on to the field and I want to beat them, and they want to do likewise. I don’t envy them anything and don’t believe they envy me.”
“The story continued a short while back, with the qualifying matches at Palermo between Chapa II and La Dolfina. Or the Battle of San Jorge. It’s as though there were never an end to it all.”
“The polo rivalry exists, as it also exists between La Dolfina and Ellerstina, or Chapa Uno and Chapa II. The ‘Battle of San Jorge’ turned out that way because no discipline fouls were called, no nothing. So we all played to the hilt because if you let off you’re beaten. But once the game’s over, that’s it.”
“Do you feel that your team, El Paraíso, is pointed out because of the way you play? You know that there are teams that the referees follow in a particular way and one of these is yours.”
“At one time I found that trait tiresome, very annoying. Nowadays It doesn’t bother me that much. One matures a bit; you begin to realize many things that when you’re young you think you can change and in the end they’re unchangeable… I had a chat with someone in England who helped me see things crystal clear.”
“When was that?”
“Just now, two months ago.”
“Who did you speak with?”
“No, I won’t say.”
“And what made you click?”
“My approach to things. From how to go on from day to day; the moments prior to a game and how to manage on the field. There are things that won’t change, and even if you stand in the middle of the field and shout out what you think right, and those listening already know that, but they will go on pretending they don’t. Instead of going against the grain you must just flow along with the current.”
“So, does it bother you or not, to be more in the limelight?”
“No, it doesn’t any longer.”
“How do you get along with the referees? Do you feel you are being persecuted?”
“No, there are some referees that are better than others; some are more permissive, just as there are players who are better than others. No more than that.”
“El Paraíso’s game is sometimes open, sometimes closed. Does that depend on you or on the opponent? What is your real style?”
“I can’t say that El Paraíso opens or closes the play. A more open play suits us more, because Agustín can make 18 goals per match and Pacp hits 120 yards. But against the Novillos you can’t play the same polo as against Chapa Uno. I don’t mean to say that the Novillo’s play a closed game, but it’s not the same game. Each one wants to impose its style. And at times it suits one to play a more closed game because of unforeseen events; because a good mare that one of your mates was going to play took a kick at the pony lines and so that forced you to try to get the chukka over with…”
“How important was La Lechuza’s conquest at the Gold Cup won recently in England? Your brother pointed out the value of feeling you are still in force in the midst of generation re-change.”
“Well, I became aware of this at the Queen’s Cup final; I mentioned to my wife that I was seeing a change: on one side Juan Martín Nero and Espain; and on the other, Facndo and Gonzalito Pieres. I’m not all that older, but there are seven, eight, or ten years between us. There are very talented boys who are full of push, and another batch of players who already show some grey hair.”
“Professionalism has changed a lot over time. What are the greatest changes you’ve seen?”
“The level of the ponies abroad is amazing; they have reached Open level. Before you used to go with a standard little mare that had a good mouth and was easy, reasonably fast, and you were OK. Nowadays you get trampled all over if you take that. There are horses that play in Argentina, Palm Beach, England and then return to Argentina. The polo fields have also improved, and the players keep fit and train more for each tournament. All that never existed before.”
“What does it depend on that you are able to hold on to a patron: how you treat him/her or that he/she be faithful?”
“It depends on the relationship between you. There are patrons that hire people to win; that’s all they want. They never touch the ball and they make up a team that they think will become champion. There are others that choose through their affection for the professional and play all their life long. Such is the case of Skeeter Johnston, who died recently, who played for 20 years with Owen Rinehart. It is a friendship relationship. And then there’s Mariano Aguerre: how long has he been playing for Peter Brant? Since he was 15 years old. It depends on the relationship.
“Did anyone ever steal a patron from you?”
“No. I started playing in England for Black Bears; I played during 4 years; I began with 7 goals and ended with 10. Pite and I both played 10 goals and the patron 1. That enabled us to add another 1 goal player. The patron maintained that it was not possible to play with two 10-goalers. Obviously I said you could. We made a bet and he said: ‘We play next year with both 10 goals; if we win, I’ll pay you double and you continue, but if we lose, you go’. We lost a final in the supplementary chukka and the other by one goal. I picked up my bag, my mallet case and goodbye. It was the only time I was asked to leave… After that I changed patrons because I had a better invitation or better team, or because I enjoyed playing with one team more than with another.”
“So, what will happen this year with El Paraíso?”
“Our expectations are as usual: to win Palermo. But I also have expectations regarding our ponies not undergoing injury. I want to go step by step and to arrive at Palermo whole. If it’s possible to make it to the final, wonderful. And if we can win, all the better.”
“Is La Dolfina still the opponent that you hope to defeat?”
“No, we have five teams we have to beat. La Dolfina became champion these last two years in a supplementary chukka. It’s a great team, but they don’t beat you hollow. You play against the Novillos, Ellerstina, Chapa Uno, Chapa II, and they’re just as good.”
“Some time ago I asked Nero–being from Trenque Lauquen–why he hadn’t made up a team with you guys. He told me you’d never spoken about it. Has the idea ever crossed your minds?”
“We’re neighbors; he’s a first class guy and a great player. When we got up El Paraíso we thought of him, but we didn’t have enough ponies to mount him and Nero wasn’t organized at the time. We have talked about it, tell him he’s a liar (laughter); it was when we first got together La Mariana, before El Paraíso. Finally we chose Paco de Narváez, who is phenomenal on the field and off. But going back to Nero, he has a great future. He’s playing for a great team and next year he’ll play for Ellerstina. You know, sometimes things just don’t work out.”
“It would have been a team sponsored by the Trenque Lauquen Municipality…”
“Yes, we would have played for Trenque Lauquen, I would have loved to wear their colors here, but it didn’t work out. I admire him a lot personally, and above all as a player.”
“Is he as good as they say he is, or do they exaggerate?”
“As a player or as a person?”
“As a player. It is said that he is breathing down Cambiaso’s neck, although others see that as being rather over-rated.”
“Nero is not as good as they say he is. He’s better.”